For me a band that will always stand out as one of my top 10 bands of all time would be Texas Is The Reason, but to some peoples surprise its actually the band that Garrett Klahn went on to form after that that ranks even higher in my favour, The New Rising Sons. For me the group was shrouded in mystery, I knew next to nothing about their story, the internet has barely anything apart from one interview with Garrett and Drew that shed very little light on the band. So this summer when the announcement of their reunion reached my ears I decided to get the answer to all the questions I had about the band. Tuesday past I called guitarist Kevin McGinnis and he revealed a great story about a rock band set on self destruct but have somehow managed to reconcile their past to take another shot things. I would like to thank Kevin for his time, hes a top guy and we had a great chat, if you havent listened to The New Rising Sons, give them a shot, the more time I spend with their music the more I fall in love with it. Their album was never released but if you look hard enough you can find it and its a real keeper, more rewarding with every listen, but I will leave you to discover and judge for yourselves. Next week they playtheir first reunion show in New York. For up to date info go here: www.myspace.com/mugofbrimstone and follow the links form there to the band members other activities a number of which are mentioned within this interview.
S:First Like I would just like to say thanks for agreeing to do this.
K:No problem, thanks for wanting to do this.
S:The New Rising Sons are one of my favourite bands so I have really been looking forward to this.
K:Good to hear
S:What I’d like to do here today is not just talk about TNRS but also find out a little bit about you too for anyone who may not know you, is that ok?
K:Yeah yeah, I’ll do my best
S:Firstly can you tell me a little about yourself, where were you born where did you grow up ?
K:I was born and bred in New York, the beginning of my life started in the Brooklyn Queens area eventually going a little further out in queens where I attended high school and stuff, in the 80's....getting old...and I pretty much ended up getting stuck here, you know, the love hate of New York...it’s a different city now but, so yeah, 34 years old, you can put that im 26(laughs). Then I just started playing guitar in my late teens, you know just kind of got into music, you know I was originally a painter...
S:Oh right?
K:And then music kind of fucked that up for me
S:What bands came and took you away from art?
K:Its just, I picked up a guitar and I started seeing the images sonically instead of putting them on the paper you know? Which I regret to some degree because I was really good...but I cant do it now, I tried and its embarrassing(laughs), so I did that, just got sucked in. Mostly in the beginning it was just like I was infatuated with Miles Davis and Curtis Mayfield, just instrumental shit, I started there, taking acid...things like that and eventually started seeing how you could bridge the sonic...you know the sonic composition of writing a tune. This guy from Atlantic records had given myself and some kids I was playing with a studio here in Long Island Queens to fuck around in and kind of generally breaking into the music scene here
S:Yeah?
K:I guess I was about 20 years old as I had been living in San Francisco before that, that was when Texas Is The Reason were just getting a lot of interest and a guy who was interested in us was interested in them and we went to see, The Charlatans...I think, thats how I met Garrett, we got stoned and started talking about The Verve who at that time were brilliant you know, and I said ok lets jam, actually no we didnt even talk about jamming at that point as they (TITR) were still going, they were still a band. So I was just writing, doing stuff, bridging the gap and so eventually Texas Is The Reason started to fall apart, my shit started to fall apart, Drews things started to fall apart so we said lets just get in a room.
S:Ok, how did you meet Drew?
K:Through Garrett, I really didnt know about that scene, post hardcore, you know I knew what it was , I’d heard of all the bands I was just never affiliated with it I was on a different side of the forest, so I had heard of Into Another, I actually had a cassette I think, so yeah Garrett knew Drew and we were just like, lets try this. I had a couple of tunes just sitting in the wings you know, I had the chorus for Mondays Highs written, so we were jamming that and the rest of the song took shape, the riff, essentially that was our first tune.
S:When you came together with Drew and Garrett, who was the bass player, was it Jim Kimball?
K:It was Jim Kimball, actually the very first time we rehearsed it was with Scott Winegard
S:Oh ok?
K:And then I don’t even remember why he didn’t stay, then Jim Kimball. Garrett said he knew this guy in Utah and we decided to give him a shout, see what he says and lo and behold he was interested and essentially he moved here to play with us and needless to say that ended after the first EP, we got through a lot of bass players, I think we had about 8.
S:Oh Shit. What really inspired you to actually do this, I know you said you were talking to Garrett at the Verve show, but weren’t you initially put off by the kind of music they had done before, did you think, "Is this worth trying?" or were you intrigued by what it may sound like?
K:I guess you could say I was equally put off as intrigued.
S:Right.
K:I mean I was heading in a totally different direction, retrospectively I came to understand what it meant but at the time, you know we just decided to get in the room and see what happens and I definitely grew up a rock guitar player and that whole song writing, composition thing came into place but I started wanting to play loud guitar music and impress people you know, so in that sense this thing was definitely intriguing to me. So what happened was really fast on the heels of the Texas stuff and you know the interest with Garrett and the people who were interested in what I was doing and those interested in Drew...you know it was really quick that we got together, we played a show and it was sold out, there were labels interested.
S:Oh right?
K:So there wasn’t a lot of time to really think about this, I remember at the time seeing the fork in the road and saying, shit, do I really want to do this, so I was doing it, and enjoying it. We were really only a band for like 3 years maybe...and for 2 years I really enjoyed it and then regretting it for the last year, and regretting it a bit after that to be honest, but I came to terms with that a few years ago. It was a very trying experience...at the end, at the beginning it was great.
S:So you guys came together, things were moving very quickly, how long from your first rehearsals to that first show?
K:Hmm, thats a good question...err, I cant remember if our first show was in Boston with Samiam or if it was in New York at a club called Brownies that used to be here. I recollect it as Brownies personally but I could be totally wrong.
S:Just to track back a little, you said you played with Samiam, what was the audiences reaction to you guys? I would imagine that the reaction would be, well judging by why people might be checking you out in the first place, and probably my reaction when I heard the first EP was "Whoa what’s that?" Was that a general thing?
K:It was a bit of both you know, the Texas fans, like, half of them were into it and half of them were like "We want Texas Is The Reason!" you know? So I guess, I just ignored it. Its hard to say. Our fanbase started to dwindle because of things we were doing but in the beginning it was respectful...we were selling lots of cd's, you know 40 or 50 a night at shows, but I really didn't pay attention to the whole (we want Texas) thing because I just found the whole clique thing, I found it annoying and one dimensional, limited you know. We were received well at the time, you know, really well, and definitely were thankful, and we were "what is this?" And considering I was in part driving the "what is this" with the writing I wasn't taking it personally, maybe I did at times, so it was good. Probably the first 5 or 6 shows we played were completely sold out you know and then we stopped playing to focus on the record.
S:So how long after forming until that first EP came out?
K:I think it was 98, so within 8 months maybe.
S:Im aware of the connection of Scott Winegard and GrapeOS, but why release it on that label, was it convenience that you could get something out quickly?
(Interview is interupted as Kevin talks to Drew on the phone about a new song, we talk briefly about the new direction of TNRS)
K:Ok sorry, so where we?
S:The EP?
K:Well, with Scott, he ran the label with David Walter who became our A&R guy at Virgin, so what happened was, there was interest in the songs from labels and David and Scott had the money and they put it up, they said lets do this and at the time Capitol Records was interested in us and it seemed the right time for us to have some product, and from that we signed a demo deal with Capitol, im not sure if you knew that?
S:No I never knew that.
K:And from that they gave us a chunk of money, which at the time was a lot, but back then it was normal, we made a demo of...im not sure what came first now I think of it, the demo or the EP...anyway we did Mondays Highs, Now I agree and these two other songs that never came out, one that we never re-did, then we found out that David Walter, who was working at Hollywood Records with Drew...well he left and went to Virgin and he signed us. So that was how we ended there.
S:When was it that you signed to Virgin?
K:October of 98.
S:So that was a really short space of time between you forming and the band getting signed?
K:Oh yeah it was within a year.
S:Within that first year, you got together, you put out the EP, did you do any touring?
K:Yeah we toured with Chamberlain?
S:How long was that for?
K:2 or 3 weeks maybe.
S:How did that go for you?
K:It was fun, the buzz was good, there were a lot of people at the gigs and we toured through the country, we had a blast you know, we got drunk every night, played really fucking loud, im not sure how good we were at the time because we were hashing a lot of it out, my recollections of that tour were fun, I think our bass player at the time was Scotty from The Promise Ring.
S:Oh Really?
K:Yeah and that was when the band was at its best by far. So we did that tour, did a bunch of shows and we were in pre-production for the record, we had our own studio space paid for by the label, we worked every day, we were on a high, Ted (Nicely, producer) was in there with us and one day Scotty disappeared.
S:Disappeared?
K:What happened was, we had 2 sold out shows back to back at the Mercury Lounge, I was going to Garretts apartment to go soundcheck and I was at Garretts apartment and he was like, sit down, I have to tell you something, Scotty’s on a bus to Minnesota. I thought he was joking. But apparently he had lost the plot, we had to cancel those shows, and that was the first really bad sign. That was just a few months before we were due to record the album, we had three months of studio time booked to make a record. To this day I think Scotty is dealing with issues but I don’t want to say too much...
S:No no, thats cool...
K:...I mean we partied way too hard and we took a few people down with us unfortunately you know thats why Jim quit, Scotty couldn’t handle it and eventually its what destroyed the band. When Scotty quit that really hurt us you know, we were like a gang, you know we were young kids, we were 23/24, we were really close, we were given a lot of money to do this, we were given like $500,000 to do this, it was brilliant, we sounded great, it was it, we were like "this is the band we are going to take over the world with" and when Scotty split, we were like holy shit, we have a month, two months to do this record, what the fuck are we going to do? So Ted Nicely played the bass.
S:What period was this? 99?
K:Yeah, at the top of 99.
S:So....
K:I quit in 2000....
S:.ok so there is history following Scottys split? Ted’s going to play bass?
K:We auditioned bass players, a lot, we were just like lets forget this.
S:I eventually got hold of 11 tracks, was that the album with Ted’s voice on it...
K:Oh thats Carl Glanville who mixed the album...how did you get that?
S:I traded years ago...along with the final Into Another album...so im here in England it was hard to find out about you guys...it was only through a Lumberjack distro add for the first EP that I heard about you, then the second EP came out?
K:The second EP came out, I prefer the unmixed version you have, was never happy with the finished EP
S:How did that second EP come out on GrapeOS when you were with Virgin?
K:That was the second strike, the first was Scotty leaving, the second was our A & R guy David, just being really green about a lot of stuff, like putting us out on tour without merchandise...I mean we toured with the Manic Street Preachers without merchandise, toured with Iggy Pop with no merchandise, and we were like, that was just deflating...so the reason the EP came out was, we finished the record, lots of excitement at the label, the radio was into it, you know they were going to radio with 4 songs which was unheard of and all of a sudden the albums release got delayed from October to February and we were like what the fuck is going on, why is this happening? So to fill that hole we put the EP out as a teaser. It was only because the record was delayed which I thought was a big mistake, it gave us another 6 months to kind of loose sight of things.
S:Did you tour on that EP or were you in limbo?
K:Yeah we did and that was the death knell that tour. We had a new bass player, a guy called Enzo, that tour was beyond self destruction for all of us. That was when I quit the band, the record had been delayed again and on tour, I was alienated, those guys were hanging out and I was on my own...and we weren't getting along, there was a lot of arguing, a lot of drug abuse, crazy shit. I felt I had worked my ass off on writing a lot of the record and pushing the band in a certain direction, we weren't seeing eye to eye at that point and in my mind, I felt like I was trying to make the best record so that band would still work, have some success. I was rooming with one of the road crew, and it seemed like a team up, I got back from that tour, the record was delayed again, the A and R guy was like "We need more singles" and we had four singles...are you fucking crazy? But we had 4 more songs which we went and demoed, those exist somewhere as well and I remember standing in the studio singing a melody for Garrett to sing the next day and err, I was like "im fucking done, I quit" I met with those guys told them and we got dropped, the record never came out. I want to make it clear though these were all my subjective feelings at the time. I'm not trying to put it out there that they're all to blame and I'm without fault.
S:What was the reaction from the others to your decision to quit?
K:I think at that point we fucked ourselves, our A&R guy lost his reputation with the label, the album had been finished for nearly a year, we had deteriorated internally, and I think the tax write off, it was cheaper for them to drop us. I was fine with them continuing the band without me...
S:Was that on the cards?
K:I guess not, but, as far as my ego...I didnt think they could and so that was that.
S:What was the fallout, was there a big blowout when you left the band?
K:No there wasn’t, there was a lot of shit...our personal lives were manifesting in the band and I think there was a lot of oblivion going on, I think we had buried ourselves in substance abuse and don’t think anyone was paying attention, I was sitting in an apartment when I said it, I said im really unhappy, everyone is miserable, I feel like im the outsider, I bust my balls, I just cant do this for my personal safety, for my health and that was it. There was no blow out but we didnt speak for years.
S:So the band is over, I guess the next thing I saw from you was your solo record...visitor...
K:Those are essentially songs that were left over that would have been New Rising Sons songs. I felt like at the end of that period everything fell apart, I had been in a 6 year relationship that had fallen apart so I just needed to do something, so I rapidly made that album, just to get it out of my system.
S:Did you finance that yourself?
K:Yeah I did, that guy Carl who helped make The New Rising Sons album helped, he did it with me and now he’s a grammy winning engineer for U2 now. So we did it, we printed it but I was in too bad a place to do anything with it.
S:So how quickly after TNRS did you do that album?
K:That year. 2001 to 2002.
S:Coming out of the band did you get back into music quickly or were your burnt out?
K:I was burnt out. I did a few shows with Kevin from Guided By Voices, we put together some random bands but I was burnt out, I thought fuck this. Then the end of 2002 my friend called and said there this band called Dopo Yume you know anyone who wants to play guitar? I said send me the stuff and I’ll let you know, I liked it, thought it would get me out of my gloom you know. Sean Lennon was the bass player at one point, they were a band that should have been done better at the time, they were opening for like, maroon 5 and the Killers...but it didnt work, then after that I played guitar on Craig Wedrens solo record and to backtrack for a second...with the not knowing myself and playing with this eclectic scene, I played with some indie rock heavy hitters and its funny how little that gets mentioned in bios. I went from that to a band called the Blood Thirsty Lovers and then I was done with other people and I started writing the Ursula Points record, Light Up A Galaxy, at the time I was dating that girl in it, Lindsey, I was helping her write another record and I was writing Light Up A Galaxy on my own and she wanted to do that instead because it was better, thats how that came about.
S:Thats a stunning record by the way.
K:Oh thank you man, thank you. But of course I mixed business with pleasure and we started not getting along and in the end...I lost a lot on that record, I pretty much wrote and performed the entire thing, but with her being my girlfriend... I got Kiboshed which is why I changed the name for the new record (Twelve a.m Flowers)
S:I may or may not be right but you seem to have a tenuous link to Brighton over here?
K:Yeah yeah I was just over there, the little label I put things out on is in brighton for the Ursula Points record and Twelve a.m Flowers, yeah they are Brighton based.
S:Cool
K:I have a lot of friends there. (We deviate from the interview to talk about Brighton)
S:There seems to be some amazing reviews around the Ursula Points album , how did that do for you?
K:It did really well, but, when we split, the reviews were going well, I had put together this killer band, Kevin march on drums., the keyboardist from Ambulance Ltd, I had a really sick line up then I got stuck in this with her... it would have benefited her, it would have made her money, I was more than willing to go out there and do all the work but there was control issues, it could have been really great with all the reviews and the response, I mean think it is a great record to some degree, partly because we hit the clique of shoegaze that was starting to rise again and a lot of people were looking for that and a lot of people...some of the reviews I thought were personally crazy, some people said if My Bloody Valentine didn't make a record there's this and I couldn't believe that, more power to them for saying it but I don't know what record they are hearing. Its weird as well the English press give me good reviews but bash me personally, and im like what the fuck?? Did I fuck their girlfriend? (Laughs) What happened, what did I do?
S:God, you’re just unlucky huh?
K:Seriously man.
S:Perhaps I should do that at the end of this piece, say what a bastard you are? (Laughs)
K:(Laughs) Do it man, do it. I certainly can be. So I personally I think Twelve a.m Flowers is the best thing I have done, you can be the judge when you hear it, depending what your personal preferences are.
S:I cant wait to hear it.
K:Its being met differently, I don’t think its easily placed.
S:From what I have heard already, it is quite unique sounding.
K:Thank you and that to me, Ursula Points was unique in the sense of its voicing but not really in that its been done, there were real songs there and in the shoegaze world there’s not many songs, the psychedelia and more songs is maybe what people thought they hadn’t heard. But to me this record is unique without breaking any massive ground. So we’ll see, im writing a new record for Twelve a.m Flowers now but it’s a little on the back burner as im writing songs for The New Rising Sons now.
S:Ok lets jump back to that, how on earth did this happen again?
K:Like a year ago, I ran into Garrett in an Indian restaurant here, I was actually sitting with an ex girlfriend of his who I was still friends with and he was like "What!?" You know. Then out of nowhere he emailed me at Ursula Points and said it was great to hear me playing guitar again and I responded hesitantly with a thank you, hope your good. He got in touch and said he'd like to catch up, see what's happening. So Drew was playing a show in New York so we all met and it was a little awkward for myself at least, but you know there's a connection that few people have and when it works it works and the band has a big energy when its there, but I was wary of past behaviours on all our parts.
S:With you meeting up was that purely, lets hang out? Or had there been band discussion?
K:There had been a mention from Garrett but from me it was more lets see if I can even be in a room with you guys, lets see what our recollections are, what are memories are, what our feelings are, and can we like each other again. What were the circumstances truly under why we started to dislike each other . How real was it and how much of it was created. So we got on, the idea of a reunion was bought up again and I started to get interested and I said no. I spent most of this year travelling, I was in Mexico and Brighton...kind of figuring things out, finishing The Twelve a.m Flowers record and then Garrett got in touch again, we met up, had a night out and we had a serious talk and said what we thought of each other, but we had to do it, we talked about the negative that had occurred and how each person had been hurt and got over it and it was like ok, what do you think, shall we just jam and I said I think if we are going to do this lets do this for real and Garrett said he had hoped I was going to say that but he hadn’t wanted to bring it up straight away. So I had a couple of tunes I thought would be great for the band and we aren’t going to play half of the record at this point. We went in, the first night was great I hadn’t honestly played those songs in 8 years, didnt even go back and listen to the record, nor Drew.
S:When did this happen?
K:God, its not even been two months....start of October. We started to play we knew we sounded good so lets play a show.
S:Could I just back track again, how did Drew come into this, it seems you all do lots of other bands etc?
K:Drew seemed hesitant in a different way to myself, just not knowing if this was for real, and he does do other bands. I think what bought Drew back in...I had sent the guys the demos of a couple of new tunes...and I think, as far as Drew has told me, he said TNRS has been his favourite thing that he’s been a part of, I think for a lot of us that was the case. When we got in the room we needed to see how we played, did it still work, was it even still relevant? Lo and behold we got in, Mondays Highs still sounds like a song that could fucking kill people today. First time in it just clicked and sounded good considering it had been 8 years since we played or even listened to the music.
S:When you had your first rehearsal was Carlos your new bass player there at that point?
K:Yeah it was him as well, we gave him the record and he learned it on his own, actually, before the first live studio rehearsal, Garrett, Carlos and myself did a little acoustic run through. So that helped.
S:Are Carlo’s and Garrett still doing The Surround Areas their other band or is that done?
K:No no, they are going to be recording in the new year.
S:God, so everyone is busy? How do you find time to do this?
K:Well for me TDML is just me im fine, I play with Doug Gillard from Guided By Voices but thats only one day a week now. I think everyone makes the time because...going back to the rehearsals and where we are at now the band, when we are on, we are a huge rock and roll band, it fucking kills and I think we will just make the time for this. Its an opportunity for us to kind of correct the past, here we are back doing it, we have new tunes and...some people seem interested and it might just work again, even with all our other projects we have our esoteric release, but the rock band is what we do, its what will put us on the radio and we are enjoying it so we put in the time. Actually the first time that we did play I played with The Surrounding Areas, their guitarist wasnt around so two days before I learned their set, that was the first time Garrett and I were on stage in 8 years for real. It was a pretty good show, Chris Daly from TITR is the drummer.
S:How many new songs do you guys have?
K:Well there’s three we are playing next week and I have about 4 more but we haven’t had time to just work on ideas yet, we have just been trying to be good to play. So the three songs we are doing I already had from start to finish so it was easy to learn those, they were well crafted, just learn and play, the others though are just half verses and choruses.
S:How often do you rehearse?
K:Twice a week.
S:Are you approaching this from a just see what happens or is there a game plan, a new record? Release the old one?
K:We want to make a record, we have had some deal offers...nothing quiet like it was. The old record we cant legally put out but we may record a few of the old songs. When we did get in the room again we realised where we went astray sonically. Like I said we are a rock and roll band and when Garrett and I stopped seeing eye to eye, he wanted to do more strummy roots rock like the Surrounding Areas and I went in another direction and started writing radio pop songs like Endless Calls For Fame and Put It On The Wire that I thought...well they worked on CD but with the ballads they never really worked live well. So we decided what do we do best and lets focus on that now. Its really paying off, we want to get out there, want people to hear it, get a record out, it might be an EP to start with, who knows. Tuesday our old lawyer is coming there will be heads at the show, the buzz could start and it could run again and it could be a mirror image of what happened before and this time we are prepared, we sound better than before, its just better. I guess at the same time we’ll just see what happens, people may not like it and thats cool. From me for my perspective, I have written a lot of diverse styles, for me this gets out writing rock guitar songs, I don’t have a voice that cuts through guitars, to sing these songs but Garrett does and its great to write for his voice. In all sincerity just writing for, specifically for Garretts vocal range, its opened up a lot for me. We are excited you know, we are sticking to what we do best.
S:Do you think may tour?
K:We have been offered to tour Germany and I know we can tour England as my buddy works at 13 artists there, we will try to get hooked up to them and its just a matter of can it be paid for. What do we have to put in and this band will only tour if its doing well so we can take the time off and redirect our lives again but if its not, then there will be no tour.
S:What’s the response been like?
K:Its funny the myspace is interesting, you do and you don’t know who people on there are, some days you get 200 plays and no one leaves a comment but between the people we know and emails its been great and I was unaware that this is some peoples favourite band, I was clueless, thats been nice to hear. People who have come to rehearsals have been impressed and some of the TITR fans have been "Fuck that! Texas should reunite" but fuck them (laughs)
S:I have to say that for me your album has superceded Texas for me, I love it, what a great album and even after all these years I still find new things to love about it. Its still rewarding to listen to. Im so glad you are back together.
K:Thats great man, I think for people who are music fans and understand artistic progression then this goes beyond Texas for them, but then those kids who have a lot of emotional problems (laughs) cant get past that record, granted I have those period piece records in my life too...those who have stuck with us are incredibly happy.
S:First Like I would just like to say thanks for agreeing to do this.
K:No problem, thanks for wanting to do this.
S:The New Rising Sons are one of my favourite bands so I have really been looking forward to this.
K:Good to hear
S:What I’d like to do here today is not just talk about TNRS but also find out a little bit about you too for anyone who may not know you, is that ok?
K:Yeah yeah, I’ll do my best
S:Firstly can you tell me a little about yourself, where were you born where did you grow up ?
K:I was born and bred in New York, the beginning of my life started in the Brooklyn Queens area eventually going a little further out in queens where I attended high school and stuff, in the 80's....getting old...and I pretty much ended up getting stuck here, you know, the love hate of New York...it’s a different city now but, so yeah, 34 years old, you can put that im 26(laughs). Then I just started playing guitar in my late teens, you know just kind of got into music, you know I was originally a painter...
S:Oh right?
K:And then music kind of fucked that up for me
S:What bands came and took you away from art?
K:Its just, I picked up a guitar and I started seeing the images sonically instead of putting them on the paper you know? Which I regret to some degree because I was really good...but I cant do it now, I tried and its embarrassing(laughs), so I did that, just got sucked in. Mostly in the beginning it was just like I was infatuated with Miles Davis and Curtis Mayfield, just instrumental shit, I started there, taking acid...things like that and eventually started seeing how you could bridge the sonic...you know the sonic composition of writing a tune. This guy from Atlantic records had given myself and some kids I was playing with a studio here in Long Island Queens to fuck around in and kind of generally breaking into the music scene here
S:Yeah?
K:I guess I was about 20 years old as I had been living in San Francisco before that, that was when Texas Is The Reason were just getting a lot of interest and a guy who was interested in us was interested in them and we went to see, The Charlatans...I think, thats how I met Garrett, we got stoned and started talking about The Verve who at that time were brilliant you know, and I said ok lets jam, actually no we didnt even talk about jamming at that point as they (TITR) were still going, they were still a band. So I was just writing, doing stuff, bridging the gap and so eventually Texas Is The Reason started to fall apart, my shit started to fall apart, Drews things started to fall apart so we said lets just get in a room.
S:Ok, how did you meet Drew?
K:Through Garrett, I really didnt know about that scene, post hardcore, you know I knew what it was , I’d heard of all the bands I was just never affiliated with it I was on a different side of the forest, so I had heard of Into Another, I actually had a cassette I think, so yeah Garrett knew Drew and we were just like, lets try this. I had a couple of tunes just sitting in the wings you know, I had the chorus for Mondays Highs written, so we were jamming that and the rest of the song took shape, the riff, essentially that was our first tune.
S:When you came together with Drew and Garrett, who was the bass player, was it Jim Kimball?
K:It was Jim Kimball, actually the very first time we rehearsed it was with Scott Winegard
S:Oh ok?
K:And then I don’t even remember why he didn’t stay, then Jim Kimball. Garrett said he knew this guy in Utah and we decided to give him a shout, see what he says and lo and behold he was interested and essentially he moved here to play with us and needless to say that ended after the first EP, we got through a lot of bass players, I think we had about 8.
S:Oh Shit. What really inspired you to actually do this, I know you said you were talking to Garrett at the Verve show, but weren’t you initially put off by the kind of music they had done before, did you think, "Is this worth trying?" or were you intrigued by what it may sound like?
K:I guess you could say I was equally put off as intrigued.
S:Right.
K:I mean I was heading in a totally different direction, retrospectively I came to understand what it meant but at the time, you know we just decided to get in the room and see what happens and I definitely grew up a rock guitar player and that whole song writing, composition thing came into place but I started wanting to play loud guitar music and impress people you know, so in that sense this thing was definitely intriguing to me. So what happened was really fast on the heels of the Texas stuff and you know the interest with Garrett and the people who were interested in what I was doing and those interested in Drew...you know it was really quick that we got together, we played a show and it was sold out, there were labels interested.
S:Oh right?
K:So there wasn’t a lot of time to really think about this, I remember at the time seeing the fork in the road and saying, shit, do I really want to do this, so I was doing it, and enjoying it. We were really only a band for like 3 years maybe...and for 2 years I really enjoyed it and then regretting it for the last year, and regretting it a bit after that to be honest, but I came to terms with that a few years ago. It was a very trying experience...at the end, at the beginning it was great.
S:So you guys came together, things were moving very quickly, how long from your first rehearsals to that first show?
K:Hmm, thats a good question...err, I cant remember if our first show was in Boston with Samiam or if it was in New York at a club called Brownies that used to be here. I recollect it as Brownies personally but I could be totally wrong.
S:Just to track back a little, you said you played with Samiam, what was the audiences reaction to you guys? I would imagine that the reaction would be, well judging by why people might be checking you out in the first place, and probably my reaction when I heard the first EP was "Whoa what’s that?" Was that a general thing?
K:It was a bit of both you know, the Texas fans, like, half of them were into it and half of them were like "We want Texas Is The Reason!" you know? So I guess, I just ignored it. Its hard to say. Our fanbase started to dwindle because of things we were doing but in the beginning it was respectful...we were selling lots of cd's, you know 40 or 50 a night at shows, but I really didn't pay attention to the whole (we want Texas) thing because I just found the whole clique thing, I found it annoying and one dimensional, limited you know. We were received well at the time, you know, really well, and definitely were thankful, and we were "what is this?" And considering I was in part driving the "what is this" with the writing I wasn't taking it personally, maybe I did at times, so it was good. Probably the first 5 or 6 shows we played were completely sold out you know and then we stopped playing to focus on the record.
S:So how long after forming until that first EP came out?
K:I think it was 98, so within 8 months maybe.
S:Im aware of the connection of Scott Winegard and GrapeOS, but why release it on that label, was it convenience that you could get something out quickly?
(Interview is interupted as Kevin talks to Drew on the phone about a new song, we talk briefly about the new direction of TNRS)
K:Ok sorry, so where we?
S:The EP?
K:Well, with Scott, he ran the label with David Walter who became our A&R guy at Virgin, so what happened was, there was interest in the songs from labels and David and Scott had the money and they put it up, they said lets do this and at the time Capitol Records was interested in us and it seemed the right time for us to have some product, and from that we signed a demo deal with Capitol, im not sure if you knew that?
S:No I never knew that.
K:And from that they gave us a chunk of money, which at the time was a lot, but back then it was normal, we made a demo of...im not sure what came first now I think of it, the demo or the EP...anyway we did Mondays Highs, Now I agree and these two other songs that never came out, one that we never re-did, then we found out that David Walter, who was working at Hollywood Records with Drew...well he left and went to Virgin and he signed us. So that was how we ended there.
S:When was it that you signed to Virgin?
K:October of 98.
S:So that was a really short space of time between you forming and the band getting signed?
K:Oh yeah it was within a year.
S:Within that first year, you got together, you put out the EP, did you do any touring?
K:Yeah we toured with Chamberlain?
S:How long was that for?
K:2 or 3 weeks maybe.
S:How did that go for you?
K:It was fun, the buzz was good, there were a lot of people at the gigs and we toured through the country, we had a blast you know, we got drunk every night, played really fucking loud, im not sure how good we were at the time because we were hashing a lot of it out, my recollections of that tour were fun, I think our bass player at the time was Scotty from The Promise Ring.
S:Oh Really?
K:Yeah and that was when the band was at its best by far. So we did that tour, did a bunch of shows and we were in pre-production for the record, we had our own studio space paid for by the label, we worked every day, we were on a high, Ted (Nicely, producer) was in there with us and one day Scotty disappeared.
S:Disappeared?
K:What happened was, we had 2 sold out shows back to back at the Mercury Lounge, I was going to Garretts apartment to go soundcheck and I was at Garretts apartment and he was like, sit down, I have to tell you something, Scotty’s on a bus to Minnesota. I thought he was joking. But apparently he had lost the plot, we had to cancel those shows, and that was the first really bad sign. That was just a few months before we were due to record the album, we had three months of studio time booked to make a record. To this day I think Scotty is dealing with issues but I don’t want to say too much...
S:No no, thats cool...
K:...I mean we partied way too hard and we took a few people down with us unfortunately you know thats why Jim quit, Scotty couldn’t handle it and eventually its what destroyed the band. When Scotty quit that really hurt us you know, we were like a gang, you know we were young kids, we were 23/24, we were really close, we were given a lot of money to do this, we were given like $500,000 to do this, it was brilliant, we sounded great, it was it, we were like "this is the band we are going to take over the world with" and when Scotty split, we were like holy shit, we have a month, two months to do this record, what the fuck are we going to do? So Ted Nicely played the bass.
S:What period was this? 99?
K:Yeah, at the top of 99.
S:So....
K:I quit in 2000....
S:.ok so there is history following Scottys split? Ted’s going to play bass?
K:We auditioned bass players, a lot, we were just like lets forget this.
S:I eventually got hold of 11 tracks, was that the album with Ted’s voice on it...
K:Oh thats Carl Glanville who mixed the album...how did you get that?
S:I traded years ago...along with the final Into Another album...so im here in England it was hard to find out about you guys...it was only through a Lumberjack distro add for the first EP that I heard about you, then the second EP came out?
K:The second EP came out, I prefer the unmixed version you have, was never happy with the finished EP
S:How did that second EP come out on GrapeOS when you were with Virgin?
K:That was the second strike, the first was Scotty leaving, the second was our A & R guy David, just being really green about a lot of stuff, like putting us out on tour without merchandise...I mean we toured with the Manic Street Preachers without merchandise, toured with Iggy Pop with no merchandise, and we were like, that was just deflating...so the reason the EP came out was, we finished the record, lots of excitement at the label, the radio was into it, you know they were going to radio with 4 songs which was unheard of and all of a sudden the albums release got delayed from October to February and we were like what the fuck is going on, why is this happening? So to fill that hole we put the EP out as a teaser. It was only because the record was delayed which I thought was a big mistake, it gave us another 6 months to kind of loose sight of things.
S:Did you tour on that EP or were you in limbo?
K:Yeah we did and that was the death knell that tour. We had a new bass player, a guy called Enzo, that tour was beyond self destruction for all of us. That was when I quit the band, the record had been delayed again and on tour, I was alienated, those guys were hanging out and I was on my own...and we weren't getting along, there was a lot of arguing, a lot of drug abuse, crazy shit. I felt I had worked my ass off on writing a lot of the record and pushing the band in a certain direction, we weren't seeing eye to eye at that point and in my mind, I felt like I was trying to make the best record so that band would still work, have some success. I was rooming with one of the road crew, and it seemed like a team up, I got back from that tour, the record was delayed again, the A and R guy was like "We need more singles" and we had four singles...are you fucking crazy? But we had 4 more songs which we went and demoed, those exist somewhere as well and I remember standing in the studio singing a melody for Garrett to sing the next day and err, I was like "im fucking done, I quit" I met with those guys told them and we got dropped, the record never came out. I want to make it clear though these were all my subjective feelings at the time. I'm not trying to put it out there that they're all to blame and I'm without fault.
S:What was the reaction from the others to your decision to quit?
K:I think at that point we fucked ourselves, our A&R guy lost his reputation with the label, the album had been finished for nearly a year, we had deteriorated internally, and I think the tax write off, it was cheaper for them to drop us. I was fine with them continuing the band without me...
S:Was that on the cards?
K:I guess not, but, as far as my ego...I didnt think they could and so that was that.
S:What was the fallout, was there a big blowout when you left the band?
K:No there wasn’t, there was a lot of shit...our personal lives were manifesting in the band and I think there was a lot of oblivion going on, I think we had buried ourselves in substance abuse and don’t think anyone was paying attention, I was sitting in an apartment when I said it, I said im really unhappy, everyone is miserable, I feel like im the outsider, I bust my balls, I just cant do this for my personal safety, for my health and that was it. There was no blow out but we didnt speak for years.
S:So the band is over, I guess the next thing I saw from you was your solo record...visitor...
K:Those are essentially songs that were left over that would have been New Rising Sons songs. I felt like at the end of that period everything fell apart, I had been in a 6 year relationship that had fallen apart so I just needed to do something, so I rapidly made that album, just to get it out of my system.
S:Did you finance that yourself?
K:Yeah I did, that guy Carl who helped make The New Rising Sons album helped, he did it with me and now he’s a grammy winning engineer for U2 now. So we did it, we printed it but I was in too bad a place to do anything with it.
S:So how quickly after TNRS did you do that album?
K:That year. 2001 to 2002.
S:Coming out of the band did you get back into music quickly or were your burnt out?
K:I was burnt out. I did a few shows with Kevin from Guided By Voices, we put together some random bands but I was burnt out, I thought fuck this. Then the end of 2002 my friend called and said there this band called Dopo Yume you know anyone who wants to play guitar? I said send me the stuff and I’ll let you know, I liked it, thought it would get me out of my gloom you know. Sean Lennon was the bass player at one point, they were a band that should have been done better at the time, they were opening for like, maroon 5 and the Killers...but it didnt work, then after that I played guitar on Craig Wedrens solo record and to backtrack for a second...with the not knowing myself and playing with this eclectic scene, I played with some indie rock heavy hitters and its funny how little that gets mentioned in bios. I went from that to a band called the Blood Thirsty Lovers and then I was done with other people and I started writing the Ursula Points record, Light Up A Galaxy, at the time I was dating that girl in it, Lindsey, I was helping her write another record and I was writing Light Up A Galaxy on my own and she wanted to do that instead because it was better, thats how that came about.
S:Thats a stunning record by the way.
K:Oh thank you man, thank you. But of course I mixed business with pleasure and we started not getting along and in the end...I lost a lot on that record, I pretty much wrote and performed the entire thing, but with her being my girlfriend... I got Kiboshed which is why I changed the name for the new record (Twelve a.m Flowers)
S:I may or may not be right but you seem to have a tenuous link to Brighton over here?
K:Yeah yeah I was just over there, the little label I put things out on is in brighton for the Ursula Points record and Twelve a.m Flowers, yeah they are Brighton based.
S:Cool
K:I have a lot of friends there. (We deviate from the interview to talk about Brighton)
S:There seems to be some amazing reviews around the Ursula Points album , how did that do for you?
K:It did really well, but, when we split, the reviews were going well, I had put together this killer band, Kevin march on drums., the keyboardist from Ambulance Ltd, I had a really sick line up then I got stuck in this with her... it would have benefited her, it would have made her money, I was more than willing to go out there and do all the work but there was control issues, it could have been really great with all the reviews and the response, I mean think it is a great record to some degree, partly because we hit the clique of shoegaze that was starting to rise again and a lot of people were looking for that and a lot of people...some of the reviews I thought were personally crazy, some people said if My Bloody Valentine didn't make a record there's this and I couldn't believe that, more power to them for saying it but I don't know what record they are hearing. Its weird as well the English press give me good reviews but bash me personally, and im like what the fuck?? Did I fuck their girlfriend? (Laughs) What happened, what did I do?
S:God, you’re just unlucky huh?
K:Seriously man.
S:Perhaps I should do that at the end of this piece, say what a bastard you are? (Laughs)
K:(Laughs) Do it man, do it. I certainly can be. So I personally I think Twelve a.m Flowers is the best thing I have done, you can be the judge when you hear it, depending what your personal preferences are.
S:I cant wait to hear it.
K:Its being met differently, I don’t think its easily placed.
S:From what I have heard already, it is quite unique sounding.
K:Thank you and that to me, Ursula Points was unique in the sense of its voicing but not really in that its been done, there were real songs there and in the shoegaze world there’s not many songs, the psychedelia and more songs is maybe what people thought they hadn’t heard. But to me this record is unique without breaking any massive ground. So we’ll see, im writing a new record for Twelve a.m Flowers now but it’s a little on the back burner as im writing songs for The New Rising Sons now.
S:Ok lets jump back to that, how on earth did this happen again?
K:Like a year ago, I ran into Garrett in an Indian restaurant here, I was actually sitting with an ex girlfriend of his who I was still friends with and he was like "What!?" You know. Then out of nowhere he emailed me at Ursula Points and said it was great to hear me playing guitar again and I responded hesitantly with a thank you, hope your good. He got in touch and said he'd like to catch up, see what's happening. So Drew was playing a show in New York so we all met and it was a little awkward for myself at least, but you know there's a connection that few people have and when it works it works and the band has a big energy when its there, but I was wary of past behaviours on all our parts.
S:With you meeting up was that purely, lets hang out? Or had there been band discussion?
K:There had been a mention from Garrett but from me it was more lets see if I can even be in a room with you guys, lets see what our recollections are, what are memories are, what our feelings are, and can we like each other again. What were the circumstances truly under why we started to dislike each other . How real was it and how much of it was created. So we got on, the idea of a reunion was bought up again and I started to get interested and I said no. I spent most of this year travelling, I was in Mexico and Brighton...kind of figuring things out, finishing The Twelve a.m Flowers record and then Garrett got in touch again, we met up, had a night out and we had a serious talk and said what we thought of each other, but we had to do it, we talked about the negative that had occurred and how each person had been hurt and got over it and it was like ok, what do you think, shall we just jam and I said I think if we are going to do this lets do this for real and Garrett said he had hoped I was going to say that but he hadn’t wanted to bring it up straight away. So I had a couple of tunes I thought would be great for the band and we aren’t going to play half of the record at this point. We went in, the first night was great I hadn’t honestly played those songs in 8 years, didnt even go back and listen to the record, nor Drew.
S:When did this happen?
K:God, its not even been two months....start of October. We started to play we knew we sounded good so lets play a show.
S:Could I just back track again, how did Drew come into this, it seems you all do lots of other bands etc?
K:Drew seemed hesitant in a different way to myself, just not knowing if this was for real, and he does do other bands. I think what bought Drew back in...I had sent the guys the demos of a couple of new tunes...and I think, as far as Drew has told me, he said TNRS has been his favourite thing that he’s been a part of, I think for a lot of us that was the case. When we got in the room we needed to see how we played, did it still work, was it even still relevant? Lo and behold we got in, Mondays Highs still sounds like a song that could fucking kill people today. First time in it just clicked and sounded good considering it had been 8 years since we played or even listened to the music.
S:When you had your first rehearsal was Carlos your new bass player there at that point?
K:Yeah it was him as well, we gave him the record and he learned it on his own, actually, before the first live studio rehearsal, Garrett, Carlos and myself did a little acoustic run through. So that helped.
S:Are Carlo’s and Garrett still doing The Surround Areas their other band or is that done?
K:No no, they are going to be recording in the new year.
S:God, so everyone is busy? How do you find time to do this?
K:Well for me TDML is just me im fine, I play with Doug Gillard from Guided By Voices but thats only one day a week now. I think everyone makes the time because...going back to the rehearsals and where we are at now the band, when we are on, we are a huge rock and roll band, it fucking kills and I think we will just make the time for this. Its an opportunity for us to kind of correct the past, here we are back doing it, we have new tunes and...some people seem interested and it might just work again, even with all our other projects we have our esoteric release, but the rock band is what we do, its what will put us on the radio and we are enjoying it so we put in the time. Actually the first time that we did play I played with The Surrounding Areas, their guitarist wasnt around so two days before I learned their set, that was the first time Garrett and I were on stage in 8 years for real. It was a pretty good show, Chris Daly from TITR is the drummer.
S:How many new songs do you guys have?
K:Well there’s three we are playing next week and I have about 4 more but we haven’t had time to just work on ideas yet, we have just been trying to be good to play. So the three songs we are doing I already had from start to finish so it was easy to learn those, they were well crafted, just learn and play, the others though are just half verses and choruses.
S:How often do you rehearse?
K:Twice a week.
S:Are you approaching this from a just see what happens or is there a game plan, a new record? Release the old one?
K:We want to make a record, we have had some deal offers...nothing quiet like it was. The old record we cant legally put out but we may record a few of the old songs. When we did get in the room again we realised where we went astray sonically. Like I said we are a rock and roll band and when Garrett and I stopped seeing eye to eye, he wanted to do more strummy roots rock like the Surrounding Areas and I went in another direction and started writing radio pop songs like Endless Calls For Fame and Put It On The Wire that I thought...well they worked on CD but with the ballads they never really worked live well. So we decided what do we do best and lets focus on that now. Its really paying off, we want to get out there, want people to hear it, get a record out, it might be an EP to start with, who knows. Tuesday our old lawyer is coming there will be heads at the show, the buzz could start and it could run again and it could be a mirror image of what happened before and this time we are prepared, we sound better than before, its just better. I guess at the same time we’ll just see what happens, people may not like it and thats cool. From me for my perspective, I have written a lot of diverse styles, for me this gets out writing rock guitar songs, I don’t have a voice that cuts through guitars, to sing these songs but Garrett does and its great to write for his voice. In all sincerity just writing for, specifically for Garretts vocal range, its opened up a lot for me. We are excited you know, we are sticking to what we do best.
S:Do you think may tour?
K:We have been offered to tour Germany and I know we can tour England as my buddy works at 13 artists there, we will try to get hooked up to them and its just a matter of can it be paid for. What do we have to put in and this band will only tour if its doing well so we can take the time off and redirect our lives again but if its not, then there will be no tour.
S:What’s the response been like?
K:Its funny the myspace is interesting, you do and you don’t know who people on there are, some days you get 200 plays and no one leaves a comment but between the people we know and emails its been great and I was unaware that this is some peoples favourite band, I was clueless, thats been nice to hear. People who have come to rehearsals have been impressed and some of the TITR fans have been "Fuck that! Texas should reunite" but fuck them (laughs)
S:I have to say that for me your album has superceded Texas for me, I love it, what a great album and even after all these years I still find new things to love about it. Its still rewarding to listen to. Im so glad you are back together.
K:Thats great man, I think for people who are music fans and understand artistic progression then this goes beyond Texas for them, but then those kids who have a lot of emotional problems (laughs) cant get past that record, granted I have those period piece records in my life too...those who have stuck with us are incredibly happy.
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